Feelings…nothing more than feelings?
This was sent to me by our resident kingdom-thinking, trouble-maker, Jake S. and is reposted with his permission: “….In the last few weeks, I have been looking at my life and all the amazing blessings that I have; an amazing wife, a beautiful little girl, a little baby on the way, a studio opening soon, killer friends, a job I like, ect..ect… Yet with all my riches that come from the very hand of God, I notice the lack of intimacy w/ Christ. The more people I talk to, it seems like a theme, we are enjoying the blessings, but also wanting to enjoy Christ. One thing that I run into a lot that messes me up; I think I would say the word is God’s primary way of communicating to us, but I am easily distracted from the word by this idea that since Christ is risen, shouldn’t I be able to hear his voice. Often when I here people, such as yourself, speak of the intimacy they enjoy with Christ, I find myself green w/ jealously….”
Jake’s honesty is a little disarming. Should we be able to hear Christ’s voice experientally/in the moment? Should we/do we walk with a sensitivity to His leading/unction? Do we sometimes doubt God’s very existence-let alone His leading? Be warned, this is a conversation that requires great candor and sensitivity. Thanks, Jake for yours….
peace, g
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loved the first sentence… made me giggle and recognize!!!!
wow the depth of these questions….. its all in the “relationship”… i have, at times, walked away from retreats and meetings, and just certain people and had a form of jealousy… thinking “why cant i have that closeness?” i think we all struggle with that…. we have to be brave to admit we arent always “close” to god at all times, in this movement WE call christianity… but it is a good thing we want more of our lord! that yearning keeps us going towards his heart.
again i bring up the book entitled “the shack” it is amazing in portraying the trinity of god and how we can relate and see and communicate with god in all three persons…. please read…. anyone…. read it…. it has energized me, made me peaceful to know my goal is……. “RELATIONSHIP” with him, the god of the universe… the creative, outside the box, not inhibited, beyond our conception, god!
i cant speak for others in this dillema you bring up but this book shattered alot of preconceptions about god and christianity, and that very thing we struggle with, closeness! that was the whole point to the author (from god), and he (the author) has now shared it with the world to see it too!
plugging along,
heidi
i would like to read that book, where can i get it?
Where are you Lord?
Didn’t I get up this morning and pray?
Didn’t I get up this morning and say, “I love You?”
Didn’t I give to You my day?
Didn’t I?
How I long for You
Your gentle whisper
Your comforting touch
Didn’t I say, “I love You?”
Oh, but the soft, whispered words
The ones You say to me
I left My home in Heaven
I lived and I died, for you
I paid for your mistakes
I paid for your iniquity
I died so you can live
I Love You
I hear your prayers and answer them
I feel your hurt
I see you struggle
I pray for you
Didn’t I go to the cross?
Didn’t I face the wrath?
Didn’t I rise again?
Didn’t I say, “I love you?”
Oh Lord.
There You are.
Greg,
So if it’s not too personal, what has your experience been in pursuing intimacy with God?
Jake,
I totally hear what you are saying. I long for that kind of close intimacy with God. I want to hear Him speak to me. Tell me what to do. Greg, how do you know when God is talking to you and it’s not just your mind telling you what you want to hear and then believeing that it’s coming from God himself? How do you know when HE is the one leading your life and making things happen and it’s not you making them happen and think that God is the one doing it? I don’t doubt my salvation or anything like that, but I just have never know when God is the one talking to me and I’m not just trying to tell myself that it’s a good idea and that is the way my life is supposed to go.
lynn,
you can get it at hastings, it just kinda jumped out at me there, but you might be able to get it at the christian bookstore…. do we still have a christian bookstore?..lol….
anyway… online through http://www.theshack.com, or amazon.com…. but i know how some dont like to order online….. but the closest and fastest way is hastings….
mandie,
i know this was asked of greg and im sure he will respond… but the main thing i seem to hear in my heart when i read your questions…. is faith… and excersising that faith is how you start to hear him guide…. alot of times im faced with different ways to go not knowing what he is saying, but progress through that open door and see if god shuts it, or shoves it wider open…. again the book i mentioned earlier calmed me to know that god isnt surprised by our decisions, and we need to relax and TRUST!!! even in our mistakes god works, and he works mightely! its about relationship with him, not the check list we can say yep god was there, i did it right! god is there even when we make mistakes, and he glories in it, knowing he can work even more within us…especially when we talk to him to say yep i was wrong, fix it!… (ok i reread that, please those of you that have come along this blog ride, dont take that as me saying its ok to sin… that was not my heart or gods…. i just know my father, (my papa) never leaves nor forsakes!)
ok im done, i will let greg answer your questions!
in THE relationship,
heidi
We are either dependent upon Him or independent from Him. The more you trust Him, the more you depend upon Him and this faith pleases Him because without faith it is impossible to please Him. In my own life, when I am abiding in Him, trusting in Him, and seeking Him I hear Him so much more clearly. It’s like those people in your life who you call all the time, you are more connected and you know what’s going on in their lives on a daily basis, as opposed to the ones you call from time to time. If we seek Him with our whole heart we will find Him, but if we carry on from day to day and have warm thoughts of God sometimes, we will not have an intense relationship with Him. A deep relationship requires tilling the soil and pruning and watering and a lot of nurturing and care. God knows when we are serious and He said to draw near to Him and He will draw near to you. He has never let me down yet when I am serious about it. He is searching and seeking for people who will seek Him and get serious about Him and when you do, it’s no small thing to the Living God!
Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
John 3:29-30 “He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease.”
John 10:4 “And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”
Jeremiah 29:13 “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”
Hebrews 12:14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”
Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
Yes. Just like that, thank you!
Intimacy with God is an interesting subject because it’s so subjective. It falls into the category of mysticism (not necessarily a bad thing). I wish I could tell you that I walk around all day a few feet off the ground, speaking in tongues, hearing God’s audible voice. The truth is, I have had only a few overwhelming experiences with the presence of God in my life. Most often I discover Him not in the earthquake, wind or fire, but in a deep internal whisper. Last night I pulled into our driveway, got out of the truck and before I walked into the house, I looked up into the star-filled sky. I felt God’s presence in that moment. I feel God’s presence when I am desperate. I feel God’s presence when I preach (not always-but most times). I feel God’s presence when I pray alone. I feel God’s presence now…..g
Wow! Intimacy with the LORD! That is our created purpose; our worship, transformation, service and on and on ad infinitum, all stem from that. We find this reality in Genesis 1 and 2. Made in His own image and likeness, and based upon what is written, only mankind received the breath/Spirit of life from Him directly. Day 6; all of the living land creatures were made from dirt, but only man received this breath of life from the Creator God. Consider that it is written that God is Spirit; additionally that when tense voice and mood is included in Gen. 3 it could be rendered as this ‘in dying you will surely die.’ and literally in John 3 what is quoted as ‘you must be born again’ was that ‘you must be born from above’. Q: ‘in dying you will surely die’ did we experience an immediate death in the original Spirit that enables us to commune with God who is Spirit (result: separation from God), leaving us as ‘walking dead’ with only the spirit of man mentioned later in the O.T. remaining? Is being born from above the restoration of the original Spirit of God returning?
The point is this; the LORD is willing that during the process of in ‘dying we shall surely die’ we would come to repentance and salvation during those days that we have life so that His created purpose for us be realized. Knowing and experiencing Him, from which all blessings come.
How we experience Him is intimate, meaning that it is personal. Since He initiates it (i.e. ‘no man seeks after God; we know not how to pray; etc), it will always be offered to us in the way that He knows is best for us. Perfect, but maybe not the way that we would desire to experience it. We may witness someone else having or talking about their particular experiences with the LORD and think “I want that!”, but maybe Father knows best. Horizontal thinking can mess with us in a lot of ways.
Let me share a personal example with you.
I almost always experience the LORD with the perception of Him speaking audibly to me, especially in prayer. My wife (Myrt) knew this and was sometimes troubled by the fact that this type of experience eluded her. She would at times say that she didn’t understand prayer or have much of a dedicated prayer life, even though we prayed together at least once a day. But she read the word every day. She had read the entire Bible through and through more than anyone I have ever known. After she died I read through one of her journals she kept of which scriptures she had read each day; posing questions to the Lord, and praying about the impact of what she had read as it related to her. Now in my estimation that made for one incredible prayer life.
Here’s the thing; it is written that the LORD God speaks to us in a “still, small voice”. The word translated here as ’still’ means SILENT, the word ’small” means soft or quiet. Because she didn’t perceive an audible “voice” she thought that maybe something was wrong. But I marveled at her because although she didn’t “hear” the LORD directly say “Go here” or “Do this” she would always come from her prayers and reading knowing exactly what she was supposed to do. she was being spoken to through the ’still’ voice.
Personally, I think that the greater (if there is such a thing) spirituality is with some one that the Lord doesn’t have to “speak out loud” to in order for them to experience Him, and His desires for them. After all, it’s also written that He had to use a donkey to get one guy’s attention.
I came to realize that as God is Omni-present, it is my lack of sensitivity to His presence that keeps me from a lot of intimacy with Him. This is why He says to “Be still and know that I am God.” So I pray, and have prayed for years, that He would give me greater sensitivity to His presence. That is a prayer that is in accordance to His will because I have been created to experience Him. When I’m riding my Harley, or sitting on my porch, or visiting with either a friend or a stranger, I can sense His presence, not because I’m sooo together spiritually (I’m not), but because He is so, so faithful.
I think that what is most important for us is that we learn to rest in the knowledge and assurance of His love and desire for us.
He that began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it.
Wait, I say, upon the Lord, and be anxious for nothing.
It’s funny… as I have pondered “Intimacy With God”, in the forefront of my thinking is what I learned in the “Nature of God” class I took in Bible College under the direction of you, Pastor Ken. How convenient that I would find your comments here as I decided to comment now….
Intimacy with God for me has most often (but not always)come on the heels of adversity. I remember the first day of class when Pastor Ken asked us about why we were taking the class, we all had basically the same answer… Intimacy with God. To know Him better. When Ken expounded upon the verse in PS 34:18, and talked about brokeness and if any of us were willing to go there for the sake of closeness with God…. I wondered if it wasn’t too late to bolt for the door.. You see, humility,I reasoned, I can choose for myself, but for brokenness??… I must make myself vulnerable and trust God completely. I must allow Him to take from me anything that might hinder me in my relationship with Him. To step up to the plate and actually ask for brokenness, I have done twice in my life. Once at that juncture and once again later on. Both times brought deep seasons of growth, but it was not easy, nor was it free. I can say though that these seasons have brought with them, the deepest, sweetest time in my walk with my King.
How marvelous! The supreme blessing that comes from the crushing of brokeness!
Thank you Susan for the reminder.
thank you pastor ken,
my heart was warmed by myrt’s experience and to know she had this experiences…. she is missed…. it also brought to my heart some of the lessons i learned from doreen nickens when i was with her alot, learning from her heart…. she taught me this too….i thought (still do) of her as a highly intimate person with the lord, and she shared some things of this nature too… i miss her also… i thank you for sharing the transparancy of myrts amazing walk with the lord… and i thank the lord for her and doreens witness to his glory!
im missing the nickens family alot this week, maybe that is god and his intimacy telling me that i need to pray for them… hmmmmm, he invites us alot to be imtimate with him, doesnt he?…. we need the stillness as ken stated to hear sometimes…
thank you to all for sharing the transparancy of your intimate times, it helps us to know we are not alone…
Thanks Greg,
Brandon shared some great verses that I have often avoided dwelling on because of their perceived impossibility; me, seeking God with all my heart. In a time where people throw around “God told me” so flippantly, I find myself moving from skepticism to cynicism. This is feels so wrong in light of how God changed my life. It’s encouraging to know that I am not alone in the way that God has chosen to reveal Himself to me. So to put a cap on this post, it seems a good correction would be to embrace the avenues of communication on His terms and not mine. I believe God is more than able to create in me the desire to seek Him with all my heart and I am thankful He will.
Heidi,
Isn’t it funny how God can lay somone on your heart and mind so strongly that you feel compeled to do something? That recently happened to me. About 2 1/2 years ago my Best Friend of 16 years and I had a big fight that split us up. And we never talked again. Here lately I have done nothing but think of her and wonder about her. I fianlly found her on My Space and Classmates and sent her an email hoping beyond all hopes that she would reply back. She almost did not but decided to do so. And we talked things out and now we are rekindling that friendship that we once had. I am so thankful that God kept laying her on my heart like He did.
Hey Jake and everybody,
The whole ‘God told me’ thing is used to settle arguments and justify actions. I personally struggle with this. I have said it myself in times past and in retrospect must admit that often times God didn’t tell me. To flippantly throw around ‘God told me’ is at least sinful and maybe even blasphemous–unless God really told you!
peace, g
Just FYI, Costco had that book (The Shack) too at a pretty good price…
One thing I like to do if I’m still not convinced if God was really speaking is to ask for confirmation. Sometimes it’s something subtle and other times He just blows me away with confirmations from other sources that I finally have to ask Him to stop, “ok ok, You convinced me, I understand.” I’m blonde but I can be taught. :) I think times like that make God giggle a bit.
My intimacy comes when it’s just me and the Lord and quiet. Like Greg said, not in the wind or the quake or the fire. But just literally I’ll curl up on the couch as if in His lap and rest and listen. And those are precious times indeed…
Keep the blog rolling, this is a really good one!!
I have to admit, I share in the whole ” God told me so” skepticism… but having said that,I have to humbly acknowledge that there are times when God does speak. The still small voice that tells you to go this way or that. Or the discernment that is factual beyond reason. I just spent two days with a close friend and sister in the Lord where we marveled at those times we could point to tangibly where God spoke to us. Or when He orchestrated events and people together in a way that brought a certain outcome that was against all odds.
I know that we give the evil one way too much credit for being the tempter and corrupter when often times it is merely our flesh, our self-ness that is the problem. Likewise, I know that we blame God for things that maybe he didn’t have a hand in… But I believe like Ken said… God is there, waiting to be intimate with us, wanting to speak to us, looking for opportunities to show us and teach us…. if we will only slow down, be still, listen and be willing to wait.
Intimacy with God vs. perceived intimacy… Doesn’t God say He will never leave us or forsake us? He even says that nothing can pry us out of His hand. Romans 8:37-39. Don’t we have to be careful with “experiential christianity”? Sometimes I pray, worship, teach and I don’t feel the warm fuzzy presence of God. I don’t hear the still voice, let alone the big booming voice of God, but does that lack of perception of His presence mean He isn’t there? No. It doesn’t. He still hears my prayers, He is still intimate with me. Right there. Romans 1:17, the righteous shall live by faith. Some times MY intimacy with God, not His intimacy with me, is sustained only by faith. The Holy Ghost goose bumps and the fuzzy feeling of God’s presence are nice, but to live by faith, seek God and find Him, study His Word to know Him, worship Him in the quiet times, aren’t these the meter of true and lasting intimacy?
Absolutely. I am a real “feeling” person, but I have made mistakes when my feelings have gotten in the way. I know God gives us feelings, but they are in balance when we stand on truth. Now I see my “feelings” like a spout in the teakettle. When something is too good or too bad they rise up and overflow and that’s ok, but to be led by that is very deceiving. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I do have a neat little story about “God told me…” One time I went to my freezer to pull out a roast for dinner. A still, small voice said (not audible) that the roast wasn’t for me and to plan something else for dinner. I thought it was my thoughts and this happened three times. So I said “fine Lord, but you’re going to have to do something here because nobody comes to my house and I don’t know who this would be for so whoever comes over I will give it to them.” Less than 1/2 hour goes by and a christian lady whom I just recently struck up friendship with (and that was God!) came knocking at my door. She stopped by for something and she was getting ready to leave and I said hold on I want to give you this and pulled out the roast. She said “Oh no!” and I said I felt that I was supposed to give it to her and then she confessed and said that she had prayed that morning and didn’t know what she was going to fix for dinner because they had nothing left to cook. That was confirmation enough for me! He does work in mysterious ways.
Wow Praise the Lord for your faithfulness in that situation! And you all are right, we don’t always have the “feelings” we wish for. When we do, it’s just such a tiny glimpse of what is coming…
My son asked me not to long ago how he could know that God is real. I thought for a moment and replied in this way. I told him that God has many ways of revealing himself to us, He is faithful to do so when we seek Him. I told him that sometimes we are to be like a detective, we need to get the dusting powder and dust everything looking for His fingerprints. Other times He brings to a place where the light is shining through and we see clearly His touch as through a window marked with fingerprints. I have found it to be very rewarding to seek Him early in the morning when all is quiet. I often while writing in a journal reflecting on the past days will see His workings in my life. His unmistakable fingerprints on my soul, this is as of late the way I hear his voice although not audible to the ear, still He has spoken.
Ahhhh… poetic Mike. I love it!. Okay, call me a touchy feely sap, but I too am very much an early-morning, first fruits individual when it comes to my quiet time with the Lord. A couple of years ago we sold our newer home and bought a big OLD home. So we have these high ceilings, dark wood and a real wood-burning fireplace. When you burn a fire, you get the wood smell and pop and crackle of the fire….So.. Early o:clock, dark and cold outside. Big fire buring, first cup of coffee, a little guitar to worship and then some time in the Word and prayer … All alone, Just me and my King. The LORD speaks to me sometimes then… Somehow, I don’t think anything could be more intimate for me this side of Heaven.
I love old homes, and have always admired the home you bought Susan (grew up very near to it and walked past it many times.) Can I come over in the mornings? You make it sound great! ;) Kidding, that defeats the alone time. I also like my alone time in the AM. I haven’t been getting it lately (something about cold dark mornings makes it harder for me to get out of bed… I’m wishing I had a fireplace about now…) But I do prefer the morning because the kiddos are asleep, my hubby is asleep, and everything is quiet. I can think! I can pray. I can worship. And then the day begins, fast and furious. So for me it’s the best time of day. If I don’t get it in then, I have to try to scrounge out some time before bed. I much prefer the peaceful quiet of the morning. :)
Nahhh… it doesn’t just sound great, it really is great. You can come over any time. I’m sure God wouldn’t mind an extra heart to our time together.. I wouldn’t. :o)
Wow! Many of my thoughts or questions are now simply answered and revealed. Thanks for the subject Jake. It always come down to Faith in our Lord Jesus. Thank you, everyone for the encouragement and Linn, for another great poem. The Lord sure is using this site to fill many with his wisdom through his Word and his body of believers.
My husband always reminds me of the saying, “Where two ar more are gathered in My name, there I will be also”.
ya know i have often asked God. God i want to see you while i was at church. and a small voice said look up. i looked up and he said im right there in my people. when i get around other christians and talk about him and praise him. or when im in my car confessing and praising him. man hes right there with me. also the more i show my faith in him. or share my faith with others.
p.s. i also feel him when i know im doing something wronghe hee hee.
God bless bro. clay dogg
Rarely does God come in bright shining moments. Sometimes darkness is the result of too much light. Obediance is not aware of it’s self There is only One who knows. And He laughs, and enjoy’s all things for His own here and now. Life is good. With Jesus. He accepted and trusted God’s sovern control. And a few of us just belive it, without too much reliance on sight,50%. Sound, 0%. Me I’m just another one.