Drinking Milk from a Christian Cow?
In the late 60s-early 70s something unique and wonderful happened in the church. The ‘Jesus Movement’ was born during days of great turmoil and upheaval in our culture. Many hippies who were crying out for peace and love found themselves coming to the Prince of Peace, the One Who is Love. Songs about Jesus were written by these young people. They weren’t ‘churchy’ sounding songs. They were written in the style that these young Christian hippies were familiar with. Most of Christendom thought it scandalous. Pastor Chuck Smith considered iti a move of the Holy Spirit. It was all very organic.
Flash forward to the 80s and 90s: Contemporary Christian music was not only accepted by the church, it became big business. Along with the ample amounts of music being put out, t-shirts, bumper-stickers and Jesus junk were selling by the truckload. The Moral Majority comes along. The Christian Right is formed. Christians are an official voting block to be wooed and seduced by the candidates. All of this has resulted in the forming of a very identifiable Christian subculture.
I’m saddened by it all. I think we’ve missed the boat. We’ve allowed our culture to pidgeonhole us. We don’t all listen to Michael W. Smith, vote Republican and have ‘I (heart) Jesus’ bumper stickers on our cars. By creating and supporting this subculture, we’ve stifled true creativity. I believe God’s people ought to be on the leading edge of music and the arts. But we’ve been relegated in large part to creating copies of the originals. If you like Brittany Spears, then you will like the Christian version. If you like Justin Timberlake you will like the Christian version.
I don’t think our awesome Creator God wants His people relegated to making copies. I say we dismantle the Christian subculture and be the Church instead. What say you?
pastor g
Comments
54 Responses to “Drinking Milk from a Christian Cow?”
Greg,
In light of what you’ve posted here, I wonder if you have ever read Bob Briner’s book “Roaring Lambs” it is an older book, but speaks to much of what you are thinking.
I’m thankful for the ministry our God has given you and Lighthouse. I’m thankful to God for you and your churches boldness.
Hey Paul,
I have not read that book, but I have been pondering and lamenting the ‘box’ we Christians have so willingly climbed into.
Thank you for your kind words. Blessings to you……g
Pastor Greg:
Yikes!!! This is real food for thought. I had never thought of the city within a city as anything but a good thing. Somewhat of a spiritual support system exploded. I mean… well… I have everything I need.. right here. Me.. mine.. I….I have been challenged by this line of thinking and found to be guilty of becoming very comfortable in this little box, thinking inwardly to the body. The whole idea of climbing out to meet the world although very liberating and exciting has also brought with it a certain degree of personal ….. what shall I call it…..FEAR!!! There are a lot of people out there who really don’t like us. Detest us, as a matter of fact. I thought one was actually going to spit on me one time… I know I know…. Jesus…..he was spat upon too. I am being painfully honest here, for someone who has spent a great deal of time being very selective about who I touch outside of the city (box) Over the past few months,first with the teaching in Jude, and now the 242 discussion… I feel my little box beginning to crumble. Please pray for me. :0)
wow!!! i am again smiling….. i feel this alot too… and feel sad when it is so carbon copied… i appreciate this so much! some of my most joyous moments are the most creative, and unique…
my soul has always been one to not follow the crowd… (except those turbulent teen years) in fact i squirm when thinking a whole group of people are doing the same thing at the same time… and i hate to be pigeonwholed…. and i like to think and feel for myself, decide on my own. since becoming a christian i think about things, culturally, socially, and personally as god would make me think and feel… and i know i probably go on my own more than god would like, but he is always true to be there when i need guiding back to HIS plan….
i have fallen for the “lets make a list, check things off, and call ourselves christians” mentality, and thought i was “SAFE” and felt a small amount of comport from this…. but to follow mainstream anything has a very dim light of happiness…. creativity in its purest form is from a lord who has a special word for his unique creation, US! and to feel that unabounding joy is to know we are unique and creative…….
my analogy to this is….. stagnant water… stagnant water has no outlet… in or out… it originally was fresh clean water, but without new fresh water, and an outlet to let the water flow out and through and be useful further down the stream, it becomes stinky, germy water that has no use to itself, or anyone else….. i never want to become stagnant stinky water….
so outside the box, is where i feel the most creative! ive been known to find trash… old screen doors, screen windows, rusty cans, ugly and thrown out things… and turn them into beautiful things again… and the significance to me is taking something someone thinks as throw away and making a treasure from it! it satisfies my soul to see things in a different form than the norm! I LOVE IT!!!! go creativity!!!!!! newness in the lord.. GO GO GO!!!
heidi
Stagnant….. I would have to agree…. The box, although comfey and safe, is also somewhat boreing, ineffective and …. dangerous (?) I too find this whole subject ringing truth to my heart. And… I love the idea of stepping out of the traditional role of the church. I love that I can have confidence that as we do this, we go fully armed with the Gospel. I spent the night thinking about the whole Christian Braveheart teaching through the book of Jude and how deeply moving that was to me on a personal level…. while I have a few uncomfortable personal quirks to overcome, I am excited to see what this new season will bring. There is no doubt that God has been speaking, moving and doing a work….. Whoo Hoooo !!!!! and I’ll say it along with you Heidi Go! Go! GO!
Coming out of the box sounds great. I went to Lighthouse for 3 years and could never find my way into the box. I never clicked in. Now I don’t go to church at all. I miss it a lot though because I always got so much out of the teaching and music. Just got my feelings hurt that I couldn’t find my way into that box. I will have to come check it out again. It’s lonesome out here being a ciber christian.
oooh lisa, come back! i will be honest i felt the same way many years ago there… the reasons arent important anymore, but the outcome is with me. god showed me i had to rely on him and him only for my fulfillment, and icaused me to really look at him and not the cetain groups of people i couldnt seem to get “in” with… he even pulled my family out and help start a sister church, and my eyes were opened to that side of ministry that made me see that i couldnt be that fullfillment for people either…
i hope and pray i run into you, my name is heidi esterbrook, i have a 16 year old daughter and an 8 year old daughter too… maybe we can run into each other…. i also like to sit in the left hand side in the service…. if you are interested i would even give you my cell to call me and we could meet. if you can maybe come to coffee saturday mornings at moxie tuscany at 8:30, if im not there susan will be with some other women who would love to have you as a friend… going at it alone is very hard and i would love to have you in my “group”!
blessings
Lisa,
I am a lot like you. Most of the time, I feel that I never fit in in a particular place. That’s why I have never liked “Big Churches”. I always feel that I am just a number there. You can’t get in on the ground floor. But I tried Lighthouse anyways. And you know what? I don’t feel that way at all. I found that it has been easy to learn names and make a few friends! Please do come back and try it! I think that you will be surprised!
Lisa-come back!
pastor g
Lisa…. I am trying to get out, you’re trying to get in…. lets meet in the middle!!! Coffee anyone?
Being that I have this Saturday off because of my play, I will be at Moxie this Saturday for Coffee. Can’t wait to see everyone there!
8:30 again?
LOL why is it that no matter the topic we end up talking about coffee meetings?? LOL Hope I can make this one!
God bless!
Really! Either coffee or food of somesort! Oh! Just more of us to love! LOL
see you at 8:30..
Thank you so much Heidi, Mandi, Greg, and Susan for responding to my comment. It helped me to get up the nerve to come to church today. I know it sounds wierd to have to get up your nerve to go to church, but after spending so much time isolating, it really does take a lot of nerve. I was overwhelmed by the Spirit as soon as I pulled into the parking lot. Everything Greg said seemed directed right at me. It was amazing. What was the most amazing is the love people showed me and I was even invited to a Life group. I have spent months isolating myself and thinking that Lighthouse was just a clicky church where I don’t fit in. How stupid I’ve been. I’m going to keep coming back and I’m going to go to that Life group. No matter how shy and uncomfortable I feel. Jesus is amazing and you guys rock!!!
God is good…:0)
OH! Praise the Lord, Lisa! I’m so glad you made it to church and had such a blessed time! Maybe we’ll even see you at Moxie one of these Saturdays. Which, by the way, thanks for the fun fellowship last Saturday! It was great to catch up with old friends and meet new ones!! :) Sorry I’ll be out of town for this Saturday, but maybe next week? Hint hint! :)
Have a blessed week!
c
It sounds to me as if there needs to be a Ladies Saturday morning Life Group at 8:30 at Moxie Java that meets every week and “Does Life Together”, to share your heart, have a cup, and pray for one another.
lisa im so happy you came!! i hope to bump into you soon! and i totally understand getting up enough nerve! vulnerability is hard! and going to church and being honest with oneself is vulnerability! blessings to you!
i was thinking that the sat. morning coffee thing was looking like a life group! i just cant seem to get past my flesh to have that morning to sleep in… pray for me! *smile* i like my slepp and my one day i like to feel lazy!
I was thinking the same thing, somehow it’s looking like a life group with a life of it’s own… I understand, Heidi, sleep is a much needed thing… Show up in sweats and enjoy the company! :)
I was visiting this Sunday. My wife Deana attends your church. I wanted to comment on your joke and references to the Amish. I was a Mennonite pastor. I am now a teacher for 20 Hutterite students in Eastern Washington. They live a similar counter-cultural lifestyle to the Amish, which you joked about, except that they embrace technology.
I find it offensive to joke about another faith group. They are no less sincere in living out what they believe then your congregation. And through my experience in relationship with them do a better job of passing down their faith from generation to generation then any church I have known. It is well known that the children of faithful Christians frequently turn away from the faith in their college years, most often never to return. What good is it that we are in the world and not of it, reaching out to our neighbors when our children are falling away from the faith? Also, the Amish and Hutterite decision to shelter their children and live in a counter-culture is only a matter of degree along the same continuum as running and sending your children to a Christian school.
I suggest that you use more discretion when making fun of a group of people. You never know when a member of that group might be present and take offense to your joke. And also, it perpetuates a narrow understanding of people with a rich faithful heritage and diverse lifestyle.
jeffrey,
i was at the service i heard the “jokes” and i know greg meant no disrespect… and being on this blog as a comment, is rather ironic, it shows that greg also isnt immune from unintentional “sin”… he has a great heart and a wonderful sense of humor and i value both in my pastor… please dont judge him, he isnt immune from common slip ups as the rest of us, i only wish you had approached him one on one, after the service, instead of on this blog… i also think he wasnt making fun, as you stated, of a group of people… that is not his heart-EVER! please come back and learn his real heart and know the compassion that he carries with him every day, he loves us all no matter what our faith, and i would like him to prove that to you!
heidi
thank you christa, i am working toward the goal of getting there! my mother is going to be here from seattle, this saturday, and she is an early riser, so maybe i will bring her, and you all can meet and maybe hear the amazing story of our life! sorry to digress, im really excited to have her here!
yay, to the coffee blogger life group!
Hey Jeffrey,
True, I poked a little fun at the Amish, but I also commended them for their simplicity. Please don’t make more of my comments than was intended. I was simply pointing out the various responses of Christians being in the world but not of…..g
Jeffrey,
I only wish greg and the lighthouse bunch were just joking about the negative comments they occasionally make about a certain Utah-based church that has a number of members locally.
But happy birthday anyway, greg.
Happy Birthday greg from the Hudson family Beau Vikki Austyn and Corbyn God Bless
Robert, have you come to Lighthouse yet?
Christa and Susan, thank you so much for the wonderful time at coffee this last Saturday! I only wish that I had Saturdays off more often to come and make new friends!
Lisa, I am so glad to hear that you come to church this Sunday and enjoyed yourself! I knew you would! I only wish that I knew more people in the church to recognize when we have visitors! But I am still so new to the fold that I don’t know alot of people. I would love to be able to meet you soon! My husband and I are usually haging in the cafe Sunday mornings before church about 10:00. Come and see if you can find us! It will be like a scavenger hunt. LOL
Thanks for the b-day props everyone!
pastor g
like a mad man shooting flaming arrows . so is the one who decieves his neighbor and says only joking. its so hard to not offend people theese days. ive been so guilty of doing the same thing to people lately. lots of opportunities for the peace makers aaa!!! on paper or blogs people just dont see the humor in the words. i have the upmost respect for the people of the amish faith i sometimes wish i could convert to that faith, but i like my mp3 player to much!!! Mandie im not going to be able to make it to coffie this week, although i am going to the sat. after that please invite your husband then if you can make it so im not the only guy. susan i will be there. robert will your invited too. i’ll bring the postum!
sorry abut will bring him too
I’ll be there by this Sat (tomorrow)8:00. I have a meeting at 9 but can stay long enough to say hello to the rest…. Can’t wait to see who shows!!! :0)
How was coffee? I was driving back from Boise while your “lifegroup” was happening that morning. Hope you had a nice time together. Next Saturday perhaps??
Christa, glad to hear that you made it back from Boise safe and sound!
Clay, my hubby came with me the last time and I am sure that he will come again! He loves to meet new people even more than I do I think! I am generally pretty shy and won’t approach someone I do not know unless I have good reason to. But I can’t wait to meet you and so many others that I attend this beautiful church with! God Bless and Good night all!
cool!!! i will be there, uless the Lord comes back then all bets are off. getting back to the beginning of this blog. i think getting caught up in commercialism is bad. as for me i love music and as i grow closer to Jesus. i find my self wanting to here about his message christian music has that mess. all the time. most of my walk i have contined to listen to 80’s music and i dont mean Stryper. now in my walk i’m finding the lyrics to be unsatisfying to me. but christian music is all i crave i realize that we need to be a light in the world, and not exclude them from our lives or cast them away, but i need to recharge. when i listen to worship it puts me right where i need to be. no matter what we do now days if there is a way someone is going to capitalize on it wether or not its christian. it was music that lead me to the Lord, and i believe that God used it then and he still is using it now. if some one can find a better way i’m up for it. we could stand on a box in the middle of five points anyone with me? lol
The 5 points? Ummm, I’ll wave to you Clay… ;)
Thanks Mandie. It was a nice week away, but very glad to be home again. I am hoping to be able to get away on Saturday morning… Not sure but hoping. Anyone else coming? Are you two making it Mandie? Oh Mandie, we have that in common too! I am basically shy till you get to know me. I don’t go up and approach people if I can possibly help it. If I can get out of being the one to call and order pizza, that’s great, it’s too confrontational. ;) lol!
Hope to see you again soon!
so whats the best drink do they have Jesusluvsualotaaaa! or Jesusluvsumocathanuno? and Christa you will be with me on the corner. ware something warm. do you think they might think were picketing 5 points for being a pentagram.
Ummm, I hate to do it, but back to the coffee on Saturdays… are we meeting tomorrow? If so what time? I’m hoping to be able to break away for an hour or so if all goes well…
c
My sister is here from Boise. I won’t be able to make it this week… regrets
nobody else made it either but the coffie is better than java it will be two weeks before i can go again, but when i get back i will be hounding everybody to go. im going to get milk from an elk cow. yum yum!!!
Clay, I understand what you are saying but what’s up with the diss to Stryper?
“Honestly” Clay, I’m “Calling on you” to tell me? By the way I’m “Always there for you” because “I believe in you”!
I have this strong urge to wear yellow and black tomorrow.
LOL sorry that I did not make it either. It’s hard for me on Saturdays because I have to be at work at 9 and if we meet at 8:30 there is no way for me to be able to go and enjoy myself.
Christa, I hear ya on the whole pizza thing! I am so afraid of confrontation! If I am even the slightest bit worried that what i saw may lead to something being wrong, I won’t do it!
Clay, I would not put it past someone to say that we were pickiting 5 points! We have a reputation I am afraid! After all, we pickited ourselves! LOL
ryan i was not dissing stryper i loved stryper evan when i was not a christian and i still listen to them today i was using them as to say i was listening to the bad stuff like judas priest, motley crue, kiss, ratt, wasp, warlock, ozzy osborne lita ford. not exactly martha stewart, ya know. i love the pun about calling on you though. did you see the one about d.c. talk about standing on a box in the middle of the cit… or i mean five points. hee hee! but for now on as for old the stuff i say to hell with the devil!!!!!!
p.s. when i come back i will be wearing black and yellow just to show you my heart is true! by the way i heard that oz foxes uniform doesn’t fit like it used to lol
mandie
while we are at it lets get the gas stations all over town!!!
Hey ya know what? I AM THERE! Let’s have a good time and who cares right?
Hey Clay, I would love to meet you! Where might we be able to find you on a Sunday Morning before church?
hey mandie sorry this is the first time i logged in since i went hunting i am currently attending calvary in jerome i go to light house when i can but saturday i am going to be at java tuscany at 8:30 a.m. interested?
by the way i have red hair cant miss me i’ll try to have my light house sweater on.
Yes… I will be there this Saturday! My hours got cut back at work because business is slow so I have till 11 on Sat am’s now! PRAISE GOD!!!!!! Since hubby has to be at work by 8:30 I will jam on over and meet with you!
i will write back if anything changes God bless
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mandie i messed up and missed our apptoinment sorry!!!!! my # is 539-2529 call me and we can try again i should have put the appt in my phone and didn’t again i’m so sorry. w.b.s. or call me
your friend clay
It’s true the 1950s were very conservative and filled with church activities and then came the sixties. wild and crazy but the lord makes good of all things and a new modern christian was born. Satan gets his foot in the door and jesus steps on it.
i personally think that the seperation of church and state in 1962 was one of the biggest mistakes of our christan founded nation. if you think about it you take church out of the schools in 1962, wait 3 years for those kids to clear out and you have a full blown rocked out and drug induced schools with out of country druggie bands flooding our nation and then l.s.d. and many other drugs are born, and by the 1970s drugs are common.
I think the lord has really worked through lighthouse and has done so much for the youth here in twin falls. there are so many activities and godly people that set good example and relate to our youth and what is a better investment than our youth . it is a shame to see the drug effects from the ratical 60s in the lost youths of our nation.
God bless all of the staff at lighthouse.
Hi Greg, Just did a search & found your blog. I’m curious if we’re related. I have a cousin Greg. I’m originally from Wisconsin & live in the Twin cities.
Kent