Evangelism=Intolerance?
Long time no blog. My bad. I went on vacation with my fam. I’m back and I do solemnly vow to be a more consistent blogger…..
Lots happening! Perhaps you saw the TIMESNEWS editorial condemning Lighthouse for “picketing and leafleting the new Mormon Temple” and “impeding other’s free exercise of faith”. There have been so many rumors flying around about us that I’ve lost count….
-”Lighthouse has a $85k account that they are going to use to launch a protest against the Temple”
-”Lighthouse has secretly hired two bums to hand out anti-Mormon material” (no joke)
-”Lighthouse bashes Mormons”
Let me just say (after I quit chuckling) that none of these or the other rumors are true. The truth is we love Mormons….so much that we want them to come into a saving relationship with the real Jesus Christ! And I applaud and pray for those few Lighthouse brothers who have been down at the Temple humbly directing people to an awesome and very informative website <sacredorsecret.com>. We did not, however, organize this outreach. A few brothers felt led of the Lord to go reach out to those taking Temple tours.
So, the TIMESNEWS accused our church of being intolerant. So here’s the question: Is evangelism by default intolerance? That seems to be the implication. I suggest to you that Satan (very real being–not mythical, metaphorical, wearing red spandex or otherwise unreal), is attempting to ‘hamstring’ the Church by making whole groups of people off-limits to the gospel. “It’s intolerant” we’re constantly told. But I’m throwing my lot in with the Apostle Paul who said, “I’m not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe” and “Woe unto me if I preach not the gospel…”. (Rom.1/1Cor.9) And didn’t our Savior, Lord and Hero, Jesus Christ command us to “Preach the gospel to every creature”? (Mark 16:15)
Anyway, God bless you guys who are down at the Temple reaching out to the Mormons in love. I’m proud of you.
Below is our response to the TIMESNEWS editorial……
peace, pastor g
With all due respect to the Times News Editorial staff, to our knowledge no one from our church (Lighthouse) is picketing or opposing the existence of the new LDS Temple. We absolutely affirm the right of the LDS to build their Temple and worship as their faith dictates. Again, we are not opposed to the existence of the Temple or the rights of Mormons to worship there.
We do, however, see a vast difference between LDS doctrine and what the Bible actually says. The difference is so vast that the LDS ‘gospel’ is unrecognizable from the Bible’s gospel of grace. As a result, we must obey our Lord’s command to “proclaim the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15) and reach out in love to our Mormon neighbors. We don’t see this as “impeding others’ free exercise of faith,” as you suggested. It’s what Jesus did when He challenged the beliefs of the Samaritan woman (John 4). It’s what the Apostle Paul did when he spoke to the Greek philosophers on Mars Hill, challenging them to abandon their false religion in favor of worshipping the one true God (Acts 17). It’s what followers of Jesus have done since the day of Pentecost. It’s commonly called ‘evangelism’.
The truth is that God loves Mormons, Muslims, Hindus, Agnostics, Atheists and people of every nation, background and religion. He does not want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). All the various religions of the world have essentially one thing in common: they teach a works-based salvation. That is, you must earn your way and do your part in order to reach heaven (or whatever the ultimate goal is). The Bible, however, reveals a gospel of grace. God accomplished everything necessary for us to be saved by becoming a man and dying for the sins of mankind upon the cross and then rising from the grave.
From the cross, Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ Therefore, when a person abandons their self-righteousness (i.e. religion) and puts their faith and trust in Jesus Christ, they enter into a completed work. Jesus was asked ‘What must we do to be doing the works of God?’ And He replied, ‘This is the work (singular) of God, believe on Him whom He has sent.’ (John 6:28-29)
Salvation is free. It cannot be earned. This is truly good news! The few folks from Lighthouse that have felt led to go down to the Temple and share with the gospel, do so out of obedience to Jesus’ commands and love for the precious Mormon people.
While we affirm the rights of Mormons to build a Temple and worship there, we also take to heart our Lord’s command to proclaim the gospel of grace.
In Christ’s love,
Greg Fadness, Ron Heath, Kevin Newbry, Dan Marks, Bryan Devore and Mike Littleton (The pastoral staff of Lighthouse)
Comments
43 Responses to “Evangelism=Intolerance?”
and we are in the process of moving to twin where this intolerant, bum paying lighthouse church is??????????! just kidding!!! *smile*
intolerance is the key word these days isnt it? this is coming from people who are offended, but they will only be offering “public’ tours of this facility for a short time, then only certain people can come into the building, and what about their weddings? only mormons can attend, all other people can only go to the receptions…. we could cry intolerant!
i love how you laugh these rumors off, greg…. attitude is everything, and i think the pastoral staff is the right men to guide lighthouse through this turbulant time….
look forward to digging into that side of the bridge soon! coming to church more often is one of the reasons we making the exodus as soon as possible!!
heidi
Praise the Lord, Heidi. BTW-our TIMESNEWS editorial response should be in tomorrow’s paper. (They called me today and asked for a picture–so I sent them a picture of Ron.)
Just kidding,
g
Hey Greg,
You get me in trouble even when I’m on the other side of the planet. Just kidding! Were about to leave Vietnam and bring a force ready to continue the Lords work at home. God is sooooo good and you are all in are prayers.
Kevin (the Tall one in Vietnam)…
Hey Pastor G! Welcome back!
Great response to the editorial. I am so reminded of 2 Cor. 5:11-15
“Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.”
Keep on blogging!
Deana
Hey Kev,
I’ve always known that ‘Trouble’ is your middle name. What was it like to be one of the taller guys?
peace, g
Gentleman:
I think you should do a little bit more study on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Hint: Lay off the anti-LDS literature, and read works from the prophets. I’m LDS, and I, like other members of the church, put our faith and trust in Christ.
The gospel that has been restored to this earth is perfectly reconciled to the Bible. I can hear you laughing but it’s true! And for fighting against the true church of God, you will be held accountable for your actions.
P.S. So maybe you should explain your role in the DNA videos that were distributed in Twin Falls. Or are you backing off your role in that one, too?
May God change your hearts and your minds,
Robert
Hi, Robert,
Thanks for your response. While it’s true that a ‘Jesus Christ’ factors prominently in the Mormon religion, it is quite apparent that it is not the same Jesus Christ of the Bible. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, has always existed as God the Son in the eternal realm and merely took on human form as the Christ (the doctrine of the Incarnation). Jesus was/is God in human flesh, the creator and sustainer of all life (see Col. 1:16). Contrary to Mormon teachings, Jesus is not the spirit-brother of Lucifer (a.k.a. Satan). Lucifer is a fallen angel, who has rebelled against God. He is in no way related to Jesus or to us. He is an utterly separate creation.
Robert, is it not true that the LDS teach that Jesus (like all of us supposedly) is a literal spirit child of Heavenly Father and Mother, who was born in the spiritual realm with us? And doesn’t the LDS teach that He is distinguished from us because he was the “firstborn” of God and therefore is literally our elder brother? And doesn’t the LDS teach that another spirit child of God was Lucifer, commonly known as Satan, or the Devil and consequently, Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer? And all of us, in fact, are siblings from the pre-existence state when we lived together on Kolob, which Mormons believe is God’s planetary home?
Robert, that is a very different ‘Jesus’ from the one Christians believe in. The Apostle Paul warned of believing in ‘….another Jesus, whom we have not preached….’
And Robert, wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that Mormons trust in the Book of Mormon and its ‘prophet’ Joseph Smith?
Joseph Fielding Smith [Mormon Prophet] stated: “Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground.”
“If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . .” (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)
Please note the Bible’s test of a prophet…”But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.” Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
Did Joseph Smith’s prophecies come true or was he a false prophet to be exposed as Bruce McConkie recommended?
Just one of Joseph Smith’s prophecies: On September 22 and 23, 1832, Joseph Smith prophesied of an LDS temple to be built in the city of Independence, Missouri. This is the wording of the prophecy:
(1)A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high. (2)Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. (3)Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. (4)Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. (5)For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord…(D&C: Section 84:1-5)
(from (angelfire.com): ‘The prophecy specifies that not just a temple, but a whole city, the city of “New Jerusalem”, was to be built. The passage is quite specific as to the location of the new temple (verse 3) and the timeframe for its completion (verses 4 & 5) . This prophecy was made in 1832 and it is quite clearly an unfulfilled, and therefore false, prophecy. There is no LDS temple on the site mentioned, and certainly no-one alive today who was alive in 1832, yet the prophecy states ‘For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord..’
While there is an RLDS temple in Independence, Missouri, this is on the wrong site, and was not built in that generation. As an aside, the RLDS church is a breakaway sects of the LDS church.
Please note also the wording of the prophecy: “A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith” , “the word of the Lord concerning his church”, “Verily this is the word of the Lord..” This wording ought to be noted because I’ve heard Mormons try to sidestep the false prophecies of Joseph Smith by referring to a quote Joseph Smith once made : “…I told them that a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such.” (History of the Church, volume 5, page 265.) However, it should be quite clear that the wording of the above prophecy shows that Joseph Smith was indeed “acting as such”. And his prophecy failed.
Robert, I’m not interested in winning an argument or debate. I’m just a sinner whom God has forgiven and set free. I just want the same for you (please don’t read any condescencion in my words).
greg
Hey guys, this is great! Please encourage people to stop and take the materials we are handing out at the temple. Bud and Ginny Gunderson, from Bend,Oregon, were here Monday through Thursday handing out tracks, the temple newspaper (from Bill McKever’s Ministry), and videos. Bud is 75 and Ginny is 73. Ginny is dealing with a second bout of brain cancer, yet she was out there in the heat for 8 to 10 hours all four days. They truly are concerned for the LDS people and what them to spend eternity in God’s presence and not in outer darkness. THANK YOU BUD AND GINNY FOR COMING TO MINISTER IN TWIN FALLS, IDAHO.
Galatians 2:
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
My Jesus DID NOT die in vain.
Keep praying for us, God bless.
Jerry Holt
Greg,
Members of the LDS church love the Lord. We know he died for our sins. Please understand this and like I said, maybe it’s time to lay off the anti-Mormon literature stuff for a while. Are you addicted to it?
And believe me, members of the LDS church are concerned about you and your flock’s standing with the Lord. As far as I’m concerned, you don’t have ANY authority from God to be running a church. Sure, you might have gone to minister school for a while and learned some verses from the Bible, but that doesn’t give you a bit of authority. You are running a church of man with a lot of man-based concepts. Do you really believe the Nicene Creed is inspired?
Robert,
Did you see D&C Section 84:1-5? That’s not anti-mormon literature is it? I read it. They are the words of your prophet, Joseph Smith….and they are false. Does that not bother you?
As to the so-called ‘anti-mormon’ websites, there are some very informative websites out there that reveal the errors in Mormon doctrine. The websites I’ve seen (carm.org/exmormon.org) are not anti-mormon by any means. They are trying to reach Mormons with the truth. It would be more accurate to say they are pro-mormon but anti-mormon doctrine.
As to my authority, I got it from the Head of the Church-Jesus (Matthew 28:18-20). I am shocked and amazed that God has called such weak and foolish vessel like me to preach and teach His Word.
As to my ‘running a church’, I don’t run a church, I serve the Lord of the Church and His people. We do our best to stick the Bible as to how ‘do church’. We do not consider the Bible to be ‘man-based’ concepts.
As to the Nicene Creed being inspired (God-breathed)-it is not. The Bible is (2 Timothy 3:16)
greg
I do find the comment interesting that was made about knowing scripture. If I might put a little word in on that one.Yes! We do LOVE our bible! It is the inspired and true word of God as Greg has already mentioned. Now, if our belief in scripture is gone, than we have nothing. The bible says, “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.” (Psalm 119:11) Yes! Again, we LOVE the bible, so yeah, we will learn what it says. Through this Word we know the one true Word, that word being Jesus Christ. Through the bible we see Jesus and this is the most amazing and precious gift that we have; to see the face of our savior.
Now, as far as teaching goes. Greg is a great man who dearly loves Jesus. I can say first handed, not to boast for Greg of puff him up, that he is a man surrendered unto Jesus and simply wants to serve him! Thanks Greg for listening and following Jesus and serving here at His church, Lighthouse Christian Fellowship.
i am amazed over and over in lifes trials that when someone gets offended they attack on a personal level… it saddens me….
pastor greg takes his time and writes a blog, being heart felt and transparent for us to read, and glean from, and those that oppose attack him personally… i have known him and his wife on a small personal level, but i know him from 11 years as my pastor, and i call him friend…. and since i have seen him preach all these years, I FIND HIM QUAILIFIED… which actually means nothing, just as other men’s opnions dont find him quailified either…. god finds him quailified… and i might also add pastor greg is the bigger man for not personally attacking his opposer, unlike the behavior slung at him…. i also know him for a man that would probably sit and WANT to talk to this man face to face and treat him with dignity and just talk… that is MY PASTOR….
thank you greg, you are an inspiration, and a great pastor! and tell pam im sorry if you come home after reading this and your head doesnt fit through the door!!! no puffeth up of thy head!!!
loves to lighthouse!
Right, Greg, the Bible is inspired. The way man interprets is often not inspired. I guess we can agree on that.
I hope you don’t take offense, but that’s why traditional Christianity is full of man-based doctrines. Paul warned it would happen, and it did — wolves entered the flock. An apostacy occurred.
You and your church do some good things, but unfortunately you are distracting yourselves by playing a part in the persecution of the saints.
I don’t need to add any words to the discussion. I just want to say to you Greg, and our pastoral staff that I love you all and am praying for this entire situation. I know the love you all have for people. I experience it continuously. And I see the heart of Jesus in you.
Continuing to pray!
Deana
Hey Heidi,
You’re very kind.
Robert,
I’m not offended. I’m very aware of the golden plates and the whole premise of Mormonism. But again I ask you, is it not troublesome that your main prophet, Joseph Smith, prophesied falsely? Please at least comment on D&C 84:1-5.
And as to the persecution of the saints comment: Puhlease! I’m trying engage in meaning dialogue with you. Although your own folks might not be happy if they know you’re over here commenting on my blog.
What Heidi said is very true. I would love to sit down with you and talk face to face. You seem like a good guy. How about it?
greg
As a former member/employee of LCF, it concerns me that the actions of some (protesters at the temple) take away from what Lighthouse has done in the community as a whole. Of course Jerry and those other folks have the right to do it – but it still bothers me. I myself have tried to build a bridge to my LDS friends. I hope that bridge hasn’t been washed away. That all said, there are areas of disagreement that have been outlined here by smarter people then me. I hope and pray they can continue to be addressed in a respectfull manner.
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As far as I’m concerned, you don’t have ANY authority from God to be running a church. Sure, you might have gone to minister school for a while and learned some verses from the Bible, but that doesn’t give you a bit of authority.
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Robert the quote above really bothers me. What right do you have to question any pastor’s authority? Where would you think that you get that right from?
hi everyone. Robert…. Thank you for coming to the blog. I know there is a great deal of emotion, passion and even pride in this issue. While I applaude Jerry for his “boldness” I feel sincerely that there are less distructive meanse for sharing with our LDS friends.
Honestly, Robert. Because of the information distrubuted by Lighthouse regarding the truth about the Mormon doctrine and how it stands in the face of factual, non-biased evidence, there have been a number of people from your “faith” step away from it as they have been courageous enough to seek the truth. Let me just say again, they have stepped out to seek the truth, not to join a club called Lighthouse or any other church or organization. My sister is LDS and I know I can stand before the Lord and tell you I would give my life to see her come out of mormonism. The reason we are so passionate about this is because the consequences are eternal. Please understand that no matter how we fumble in the way we try to comminicate this to you…. we as a church, I myself as an individual, may dear Pastor greg… LOVES the mormon people and as much as you are concerned for the role we play as you’ve stated in your blog, we are a thousand times that concerned for your eternal destiny.
You see…. if in the end you are right about all of this, the worst thing to happen is that we don’t get the whole bag or the biggest prize. But what if the bible is literal and true as GOD says it is 2 tim 3:16. If it is.. then you lose everything at the hands of one who has deceived you. If the bible is true and in tact as it states, then have to take it all. Even the part that says a profit who bears false witness is to be cast out from among you and stoned.
The thing that is heart breaking to me more than anything else, is that the LDS people seem to follow their leaders, men who tell them not to watch the videos or to check out the websites, or who say that Lighthouse is Mormon bashing and we hate you… You might be surprised that the bible teaches us to seek the truth for ourselves. My pastor… greg has taught me to test what he says against the bible for myself and never take what he says from the pulpit as gospel. I am, as we all are.. held responsible for what I believe. I am not a Christian because my family has been for generations. My decision is my own and it came at a personal cost. I did not jump on a bandwagon or join a club. It is difficult sometimes to take a stand for truth. It is not a popular place to be… but then popularity is not what Lighthouse or what Christianity is about. We fumble and sometimes we make mistakes in how we present information, but please understand that our heart is to see men and women come out of the darkness of deceit and into the light.
I would challenge you, my precious friend, to be a (Berean Acts 17:11). To open your heart and mind to seek out those things. Read the bible and put away everything else for a season, watch the video and visit the websites. Forgive us where we have offended you, but please seek to know the truth for yourself. Prove your doctrine against the bible.
God bless you
Hi Greg, Susan, Jerry:
Maybe you should do everyone a favor and post the text of the “anti-LDS” literature that is being handed out by the protesters. I admit I haven’t seen it, but I can guess what kinds of things it says.
If it talks about Christ’s atonement, resurrection, and how to obtain salvation (according to your doctrine), then sure, I don’t have a problem with it.
However, if it claims that Joseph Smith was a con man, obsessed with polygamy, false prophet, and says all manner of negative things against the church, then heck yes, I have a problem with it because I know inside it is false. I think churches should uplift, instead of dwelling on such negativity. The Spirit has borne witness to me that the LDS church is true, and Jesus Christ himself stands at the head of it.
P.S. Susan, please don’t do any weeping over Mormons. They know a lot more about the purpose of life than what you might realize.
Hi Robert,
Thank you for your comments. I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from. Am I to understand that the reason you haven’t commented on (what I believe to be) Joseph Smith’s false prophecy in D&C 84:1-5 is that ‘the Spirit has borne witness….that the LDS church is true..’?
In other words, though the facts and evidence may be one thing, the confirmation of the ‘Spirit’ trumps those facts?
I’m just asking-sincerely.
Greg
I thought my last post was fairly straightforward. I simply want to know the tone of the literature that protesters are handing out. You guys make it sound like it talks exclusively about Christ’s mission. Personally, I think it is a more “in-your-face” kind of anti-Mormon literature that I’ve seen in the past. So, see if you can prove me wrong. Please post the text and I’ll be happy. :)
Greg, you really like that Doctrine & Covenants section 84. Did you read the other 137 sections? :) I can’t fully explain Section 84 right now but I guess I could always say that the saints weren’t worthy enough for the prophesy to be fulfilled. And you know what, I can’t fully explain some of the other prophesies, either. Maybe if I studied more …. However, are there any prophesies in the Bible that apparently weren’t fulfilled? I bet you can come up with more than a couple. But that doesn’t mean the Bible is untrue. I believe the Bible to be the word of God.
God’s ways are not man’s ways.
Dear Robert,
The only prophesies in the Bible that I can honestly say have not been fufilled you can find in the book of Revelation, and even some of those are happening right before our very eyes in todays troublesome world. And the ones that so called have “not been fufilled” are the things that have yet to come to pass in the great tribulation. Everything our God has promised He would do He has done which is obviously more than I can say for your so called prophet.
Hey Robert,
Just so you know, Lighthouse has not sanctioned, sponsored or otherwise organized any of the Temple activity. One of our members (Jerry) felt called to get involved with the Temple outreach. There may be others, I don’t know. But I know Jerry and he is a humble, kind man who truly loves the Mormon people. Lighthouse has however, organized a series of Thursday night lectures (in cooperation with a number of other MV churches) that are designed to explore the differences between Biblical Christianity and Mormonism. The heart of these lectures are to inform Christians and equip them to reach out to Mormons in love.
As to the literature that is being handed out at the Temple, I don’t know. I can find out what it is saying. I do know that Jerry has been directing people (with a sign) to sacredorsecret.com, which is a website of Mormon Research Ministry. Bill McKeever founded it. BTW, Bill is speaking a week from Thursday at the Assembly of God church on Addison. You really ought to come and hear him out. Visit the website. It has truthful information about Mormonism presented in a kind fashion. It is straightforward, but I wouldn’t characterize it as ‘in your face’ or vitriolic.
As to Bible prophecy, there are hundreds of prophecies that have been fulfilled-especially concerning Jesus and His incarnation, life and death upon the cross. There are many prophecy that await fulfillment. The difference between Bible prophecy and the D&C prophecy (as well as dozens of other Mormon prophecies) is that the prophecy of Joseph Smith is obviously false because it said, ‘…that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. (5)For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord…’
In other words, there was a very specific time frame for the prophecy to be fulfilled (in this generation). To my knowledge and understanding that did not happen. To this day there is no New Jerusalem/Temple in Missouri. Thus, that particular prophecy is false.
The faith spoken of in the Bible is reasonable. That is, it is not blind or divorced from reason and fact. “….’
Come let us reason together’, saith the Lord…..” (Isaiah 1:18)
Anyway, I appreciate the dialogue, Robert.
greg
http://irr.org/mit/are-mormon-temples-christian.html
http://www.mrm.org/files/tracts/TempleNewspaper.pdf
Robert, the above links will take you to copies of the literature we are handing out at the temple.
Hey, Robert
What greg says is valid…. If you are so sure about your doctrine, what better way to validate it, then to prove it against such claims as this group of Christians so adamantly make. Let me ask you a pointed question… Why? Why do you think these speakers, jerry, or a fellowship of believers would so adamantly pursue this point at the cost of alienating friends and neighbors? It isn’t because any of us hate mormons. Sometimes, as I stated earlier, truth can be offensive. If you find the literature offensive, then maybe you should dig into it,discover and present factual evidence that will silence the nay-sayers. Honestly it was the loving, in-your-face attitude of a true friend that began the journey that led me to the cross. It’s how I became a Christian. I searched earnestly to know the truth about the bible, thinking it couldn’t possibly be truth…. and I found that it is. There is factual archaeological, scientific evidence that says so. Not just oppinion and stories handed down. A true friend, one who really loves you will tell you when you have a booger on your face…. or will lovingly tell you when you are allowing costly error into your life. It would be way easier for those folks to pull inside and enjoy family picnics, ice cream socials and send out our congregation in twos, quietly, non-publically to invade the privacy and personal quiet time of our neighbors…. isn’t that what you do? Don’t you bring kind of an in-your-face message about the gospel to my door and tell me I am wrong to think of my Lord and King as God in carnate? Aren’t you the one who tells me He is a spirit-brother of Lucifer? To me that is the highest of offenses… and you do it in my home. The sanctuary of my family.
Sorry, but I will make no apologies for the message we bear… as for weeping? I am afraid that my heart still breaks and I will continue to pray fervently for the mormon people of this city and for you my friend.
Dear Pastor G.,
I love your response to the Times News – a Spirit led public account of the gospel in explanation of why anyone would choose to witness to people who already call themselves Christians. Beautiful! We continue to pray for LightHouse Fellowship and all the Christians in Twin Falls who endeavor to reach to the deceived. God bless you all. In the love of Jesus, anne hughes :-) http://www.cogprays.net
http://archives.lighthousecf.org/dna/
Robert, the link above will lead you to a letter written at the time of the “DNA vs the Book of Mormon” video distribution.
Below is just a part of the letter
Do we oppose LDS teachings? Certainly. Are we against the promotion of those teachings? Definitely. Do we work to produce and distribute information that dispels those teachings and promotes Biblical doctrine? That is our goal and mission.
But are we against the Mormon people? Do we hate them? Absolutely not!
Stop and think for a moment. If we truly were against Mormons, why would we share information in the hope that they would embrace the truth of Jesus Christ? Wouldn’t the more hateful thing be to simply smile and watch them walk down the path to destruction?
I’m just glad that Jerry and Susan aren’t going to be the ones that decide who gets into heaven.
As I said before, members of the LDS church love our Lighthouse Christian neighbors and we’ll keep praying for you. You have acccomplished some good things — it’s just that you get distracted at times. Do me a favor and attend an LDS sacrament meeting or two.
May you be led to the truth … believe me, I’m really serious about that.
Robert, I would be glad to attend an LDS sacrament meeting, can I go with you?
i have attended many sacrament meetings. (many = in the 20ish category)
i have had all seven missionary discussions.
i have read Galations 1:6-9, from the bible.
when someone needs lead to the truth— you direct them to a sacrament meeting or two?
jerry & susan– i am glad as well that you are not deciding.
jerry–this is for you… Sacrament Meeting: Those attending are asked to wear their “Sunday best.” For members, this means dresses or skirts for the women, and a suit or dress pants and shirt for men. However, a female visitor who arrived in pants, for example, would never be asked to leave, so please do not stay away simply because you haven’t the right clothing. Hats are not required.
I am happiest that i am not deciding who goes to heaven. :o)
No one goes to heaven because of the church they belong to. Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship. God can’t stand religion. Jesus spoke out pretty strongly against it. The religious eventually killed Him. Religion does not impress God. Nothing we do in our humanity impresses God. How can we do anything to impress Him? God is perfect. What can we do to impress Him? Sing? Worship? Pray? Preach? Go to church? Feed the hungry? Give money?
Without faith it is impossible to even please God. Jesus said it very clearly, “No one comes to the Father but by me”. Anyone or any church that teaches anything else is making up their own gospel. The consequences for which are very severe.
Satan is a deceiver and liar. Since the ascension of Christ, Satan has given more than one man a “new” idea about how man should live and worship. Some times he even uses the name Jesus. That’s why God gave us the Bible, so we can hold every teaching up to the light. All the best teachers will tell you to do that. Everything about Mormonism I’ve seen, read, heard or been taught at Lighthouse is to teach or get people to question. It always expresses love for the people and it condemns only the doctrine that is contrary to the Bible.
It’s my belief that anyone that hands out tracts or videos or any of that stuff only wants those receiving it to question it and check it out for themselves. There is only one truth. The enemy wants us to think that people can believe different things about god and it’s OK. God says differently. If the one called Jesus is not the creator, not the only sacrifice for the sin of the world, not the second person of the Trinity, not crucified died and buried, not risen from the dead and returning one day. Then he is not the Jesus of the Bible. He just has the same name.
Jerry, you’d really go with me? That would be great! This Sunday is fast and testimony meeting.
But one thing — I think the bishop would prefer that you leave your sign at home.
Where and when, Robert?
Jerry,
Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you sooner. What’s kind of funny about this sacrament meeting thing was that at first I didn’t think you were serious about attending. I just threw out the idea that you attend a sacrament meeting in hopes that you would get a better idea of what Mormons believe, and maybe feel of the Spirit. Now that you appear willing to attend, I almost don’t know how to respond.
What are your motives? I would hope that if you do attend an LDS church meeting, you would go with the attitude of listening and tuning in to the Holy Spirit. I would also hope that you wouldn’t go with the intent of causing some disturbance that would disrupt the meeting. I would hope that you would be respectful.
Jerry (and everyone else), I know that God lives. I know that Christ died for my (and your) sins. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. You probably think that sounds crazy, but if you really want to know the truth, sometimes you have to go to the source. Exclusively listening to Sandra Tanner speak or reading “anti-Mormon” literature isn’t going to cut it.
And a message of apology to Greg: I’m sorry about my post a while back that questioned your authority as a minister. I shouldn’t have worded my message that way. It wasn’t meant to be a personal attack. I think you know the doctrine of the LDS church well enough to know where I was coming from.
See ya.
Hey Bob,
No sweat on the authority comment. Thanks for your kindness and humility in apologizing. That blesses me……Concerning going to the source: For the Christian, the source is Jesus Christ Himself. To us Jesus Christ is not a man who became a god. He is the Alpha and Omega, the great I AM, Creator of all things, Almighty God. He has ever existed within the Godhead as God the Son. Though there are 3 distinct personages within the Godhead (Father, Son and Spirit), there is only one God. ‘Behold O, Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.’ (Deut. 6:4). Genesis 1:1 declares ‘In the beginning God (Elohim-plural-could be translated ‘Gods’ if it weren’t for the singular verb that follows) created (bara-singular verb) the heavens and the earth.’
What follows in the Bible is the revelation of a triune God Who then decided to create a unique being. ‘Let Us make man in Our Own image.’ (Genesis 2:28)
Adam and Eve were created. They sinned when they ate of the one tree that God had warned them not to eat of. It is interesting to note that Satan’s approach-his ’sales pitch’-was to tell them that in eating the fruit they would become gods themselves. But far from making them deity, it separated them from their Maker. All human beings born since then have been marked by that original sin. That is, we are sinners by birth and by choice. ‘I was conceived in sin’ (Psa. 51) ‘All have sinned’ (Romans 3:23). The ‘wages (consequence) of sin is death’ (Romans 6:23). But God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever would believe in Him would not perish (the consequence of sin) but would have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
In order for God to save sinners (us), He had to satisfy His own righteousness and justice. In other words, He couldn’t compromise His holy character by bringing fallen creatures into relationship with Himself. A price had to be paid. Atonement had to happen. But how? How could the sins of all mankind be atoned for? A life would have to be taken. “……For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life….” Lev. 17:11. But the Old Testament system of sacrificing bulls and goats didn’t remove sin, it just covered sin and pointed to the Ultimate Sacrifice.
When John the Baptist was down at the Jordan River baptizing, he saw Jesus coming and he said, ‘Behold the Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY the sin of the world’.
You see Robert, God the Son became a man so that He could be the One, all-satisfying sacrifice for sin. ‘God was manifest in the flesh’ (1 Timothy 3:16). At a certain point in history (approx. 2000 years ago), God the Son entered into the womb of a virgin. He was born in Bethlehem. He grew up in an insignificant town (Nazareth). At approximately 30 years of age He began His public ministry of teaching and miracles. He claimed to be God incarnate, which is what eventually got Him crucified upon a cross, thus atoning for our sins. He arose from the grave, thus conquering death and then eventually ascended to heaven.
I say all that to say this: Jesus did not claim to point to the truth or have the truth; He claimed to BE the truth. ‘I AM the truth, the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me.’ (John 14:6). Jesus is God’s final word:
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high….
-We have been created by Jesus and for Jesus (Colossians 1:16).
-The universe (including us) is being held together by Jesus (Colossians 1:17).
-Eventually every created being will bow in worship to Jesus (Philippians 2:11).
-The Holy Spirit’s ministry is to glorify Jesus (John 16:14).
You see, Robert, it really is all about Jesus. That’s why it is crucial that we be accurate in our understanding of who He is. It is no wonder that Satan’s goal is to blind ‘….the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.’ (2 Cor. 4:4). He does so by creating another Jesus and another gospel (2 Cor. 11:1-4).
Robert, I say this in humility and love, the LDS Jesus is another Jesus. The LDS gospel is another gospel. I humbly plead with you to repent and trust in the Jesus of the Bible-who loves you and desires to be your Lord and Savior.
In Christ’s love,
Greg Fadness
P.S. I don’t think you have to worry about Jerry making a ruckus…..
Robert,
I would invite you to a service at Lighthouse. I will be at the 6:00 p.m. Saturday night service. There are also two services on Sunday morning starting at 9:15 and 11:15. Don’t dress up, t-shirt and jeans are fine. Looking forward to meeting you.
Jerry
P.S. We are still meeting at the Main St. building downtown.
wow…Greg that last entry moved me to tears. Of course, I’m usually moved when I hear the Word of our Lord. Your teachings just bring Him to life..you have really been blessed with a gift for teaching, YOUR passion has always made me want to learn and love Him even more. I also think what you said very much paints the picture of how much you love Jesus and how much you truly care about your fellow man. I really don’t have enough knowledge yet to really comment on all this, but just wanted to say what a wonderful Bible study this has been for me. I’m very proud to call you my pastor and Lighthouse my church. You’ve never backed down from a question and you always have thorough answers because of your in-depth knowledge of the Truth and love for Christ. Robert, I really do hope you come to visit our church. I think there are misunderstandings as to what we are all about as well. My LDS friend just asked me today, “how can you not have a religion and be a Christian?” Because for me, it’s not about a religion. Like Greg said, it’s all about Jesus. We study the bible only and we are guided by His words on how we should worship Him. It’s that simple. Maybe because it’s so simple it doesn’t make sense to people. I’m not really sure, other than it seems it’s human nature to want to put a label on something so they can identify with it (or stereotype it). I just know that I can truthfully say I have never felt mislead, because everything we are taught is right there in the Bible, and if we do have questions we are encouraged to question our leaders, and look it up and study for ourselves. I’m learning a lot from all this. Debate is good! Keep it up! :)
Thank you so much for having this discussion on here for me to read. I moved away from Twin Falls (back to Canada) just about 2 years ago. I miss the church deeply, even if we weren’t there to make a connection with very many of the people. You guys truly inspire me to make a difference, thank you for keeping God #1 and letting your light shine through out the community and the world.
sorry, let me make a correction (they really should make you check your post!!) :) we miss the church deeply, even if we weren’t there LONG ENOUGH to make a connection with many of the people.
haha… that sounds MUCH better :)
Hey Cynthia and Karen,
I sure appreciate the encouragement……greg
Robert,
It is so awesome that you are stepping up to question Greg’s authority as a pastor and Lighthouse Christian Fellowship. It is so cool that you continue the dialogue. I encourage you to open up The Bible and look up all the verses that Greg has posted. Read them for yourself, don’t just take our word for it. We truly love you Robert and I will pray for you that the real Jesus will work in you to bring you to the real Truth. I have compassion for you as the Lord has taught me. We are here for you.
With much love,
Barb
Barb,
I already apologized for so bluntly stating my position on authority in regarding ministers teaching “traditional” Christianity.
Hey, here are some links for people to look up. What do you think about them?
http://www.jimfeeney.org/apostlesandprophets.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_theosis.shtml
Take care